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HlessClaudesman 27 minutes ago [-]
If American services can be yeeted on a whim, American services can no longer be relied upon.
The Fable debacle seems destined to be the canonical reason why the EU built their own software / AI ecosystem.
TitaRusell 5 minutes ago [-]
Its especially funny in light the US is always complaining about EU regulations.
I would still prefer bureacratic laws to the chaos of the White House.
willtemperley 30 minutes ago [-]
Odd title, I’m not sure it was Anthropic’s decision.
Practically this means Europe has a short window in which to catch up, while the US hobbles its own progress.
cassianoleal 28 minutes ago [-]
Arguably, it was Anthropic's decision to abide by their Government's orders. They could have not done so, but that would likely have consequences they weren't willing to face.
inglor_cz 28 minutes ago [-]
How are we going to catch up if our most talented AI people have moved to Silicon Valley and get 10x the compensation they would get back home.
The most egregious example: the core OpenAI team is like forty per cent Polish...?
anonymous908213 15 minutes ago [-]
The US banning those people from working on frontier models is perhaps the exact thing that would give you an opportunity, you would think.
inglor_cz 5 minutes ago [-]
The tech billionaires won't let such a ban stand. They may not GAF about random Latinos being deported from a field in Texas, but they won't simply give up people like Andrej Karpathy.
Jared Kushner will get a sweet package of private Anthropic shares and everything will be forgotten.
kshacker 41 minutes ago [-]
I think due to a variety of reasons EU and US are on a road to divorce. EU will be wise to make that happen on their terms, but they do not seem to be ready.
- Monopolies and related regulation. Of course US has its own companies being treated as monopolies so they will try to save them
- Social systems including healthcare
- Russia being next door vs far away (for US)
- The whole AI buildout
- A little bit of Libre Office smattering at the government level
Whether you consider US to be guarding its national interests, or whether you consider europeans to be taking a free ride on US's defense systems, it seems like 2 partners who got together for whatever reasons, you can even justify them in history, but history has moved on. I think we are going in 2 different directions for even the next president, however big a U turn he/she makes, I do not think the situation is salvageable.
dgellow 38 minutes ago [-]
If there is a divorce the very obvious reason is Trump
joe_mamba 36 minutes ago [-]
>EU will be wise to make that happen on their terms, but they do not seem to be ready.
It's too late for this. The time to execute this was 20 years ago when EU had leverage (the EU stock market was bigger than the US one in 2004, now it's half). Now that leverage is gone and EU is bogged down with massive domestic issues it can't recover from (some of which you mentioned), and starting a massive tech IP/trade war now with the US over Claude as retaliation for Trump will only hurt the EU working class more, as the US has more levers to pull being a big consumer of EU exports.
Unfortunately due to decades of neglect, mismanagement and bad policies, EU has backed itself into a corner making itself an easy mark for both the US and China to take advantage of as they lack any leverage to dictate international policies on their terms so they have to fold in the end.
Also, many EU politicians have no idea how the internet works let alone what Claude is. So much talks coming from them out of the blue on this topic will be the mouthpieces of the lobbyists funding them in exchange for government money to build "EU sovereign products" which may or may not deliver which is irrelevant as the goal will be to laudner public money into private pockets for shipping a sovereignty sticker.
@snovv_crash
>You spend too much time online
How can you insult people like that?
I base my assessment on the visible decline me and everyone around me see with our own eyes over the past 10 or so years. I can see for myself how my purchasing power has dropped like rock, how brutal inflation is, how much more expensive housing is relative to wages, how much more difficult it is to get a state doctor and childcare, the waves of layoffs me and friend experienced, etc. the news didn't have to tell people that, people can see and experience that for themselves. All these are not caused by one single issue that you can easily revert, they're a cumulation of multiple issues that accumulated over decades and are impossible to reverse in the current situation the EU is in.
It's so insulting when people are trying to gaslight you that your lived expiries are just "being online". So disingenuous and bad faith.
>The EU isn't bogged down with issues
It definitely is. That's why it can't take decisive actions against foreign bullies. Lie the EU talks a lot about its freedom and humanitarian values and polices but sheepishly fails to impose them on its trading partners, because it would suffer retaliations it can not absorb. It's too dependent on energy and tech imports from the US and too dependent on manufacturing from China, so it can't piss either of them off and is forced to play ball to their tune regardless of diverging values, while also playing to the tune of Azerbaijani authoritarianism for their gas imports and to the whims of Indian nationalists for access to their market. EU is currently in no position to bargain so it folds to everyone's demands.
snovv_crash 28 minutes ago [-]
You spend too much time online. The EU isn't bogged down with issues, it has uplifted an enormous part of itself out of abject post-communist poverty and yes growth isn't as fast, but it also isn't foisting as much debt on its citizens or working everyone to death. The problems you hear about on the news make the news because they are newsworthy, not because they are normal occurrences.
calgoo 14 minutes ago [-]
Its not to late, thats the defeatism that gives us fascism in the form of US politicians influencing us. Please dont think that we are soooo behind that there is no choice but to give in to their BS. There is, and right now is the perfect to to fight back.
dgellow 40 minutes ago [-]
Please, for once, react in a meaningful way. No "we are concerned and will consider strongly monitoring".
IveSeenItAll 27 minutes ago [-]
It remains to be seen what the actual consequences of the "Anthropic decision" are. Will it be struck down by the courts? Does it matter anyway? (And, from my POV, the answer to that is "No" -- Opus 4.whatever did several fine jobs for me this weekend, and I've yet to be convinced of Fable/Mythos/Whatever superiority).
Does "Europe" need a leading-edge model? Yeah, most likely, but chasing the "SpaceX-buys-all-the-Nvida-chips-then-rents-them-out" model is pointless, and the "China distills it all" market seems to be rather saturated as well. So, another vote for "meh", I guess?
miohtama 19 minutes ago [-]
Software development productivity can go up 10x for some industries and tasks with SOTA model. If the EU cannot access such model it means the EU cannot produce software at competitive prices. Software is eating the world and if the EU is not in the software business, it has no stakes in the future.
joe_mamba 49 minutes ago [-]
EU will start strongly "monitoring the situation" and "urging for peace" on monday, but only after after lunch and coffee break, then continue talks in september when everyone is back from their 3 month summer vacation, then have a meeting to decide when to schedule a meeting to decide on how to regulate the use of AI, then in 2030 authorize a massive 50k Euros package in funding to EU companies to build a domestic competitor to Claude, available after they fill 50k pages of paperwork, then post self-congratulatory boomer memes on X on how their AI achieved sovereignty, privacy and freedom of speech and can be access by all EU citizens only via their doxxing digital-ID, just don't call them fat and stupid or the police will knock on your door. /s
Yes, I know Mistral exists but they're into the b-2-b sovereign enterprise/government niche, not winning the consumer space. And if history taught us anything from the Blackberry vs iPhone wars is that products winning over the consumer preference end up dominating the market over those dominating enterprise. Simple as.
Not many consumers and small-medium businesses will prefer to buy an inferior but domestic products for the sake of sovereignty, if the foreign imports can deliver better faster/results for cheaper. Same how Chinese brands are now easting European ones on the European market.
maipen 35 minutes ago [-]
It's sadly really like this. And they are "always busy".
alecco 46 minutes ago [-]
I don't envy the interns whose job is to explain things to the EU leadership.
libertine 14 minutes ago [-]
Which internships are better? Explaining things to the US leadership? Or to the Chinese leadership?
The Fable debacle seems destined to be the canonical reason why the EU built their own software / AI ecosystem.
I would still prefer bureacratic laws to the chaos of the White House.
Practically this means Europe has a short window in which to catch up, while the US hobbles its own progress.
The most egregious example: the core OpenAI team is like forty per cent Polish...?
Jared Kushner will get a sweet package of private Anthropic shares and everything will be forgotten.
- Monopolies and related regulation. Of course US has its own companies being treated as monopolies so they will try to save them
- Social systems including healthcare
- Russia being next door vs far away (for US)
- The whole AI buildout
- A little bit of Libre Office smattering at the government level
Whether you consider US to be guarding its national interests, or whether you consider europeans to be taking a free ride on US's defense systems, it seems like 2 partners who got together for whatever reasons, you can even justify them in history, but history has moved on. I think we are going in 2 different directions for even the next president, however big a U turn he/she makes, I do not think the situation is salvageable.
It's too late for this. The time to execute this was 20 years ago when EU had leverage (the EU stock market was bigger than the US one in 2004, now it's half). Now that leverage is gone and EU is bogged down with massive domestic issues it can't recover from (some of which you mentioned), and starting a massive tech IP/trade war now with the US over Claude as retaliation for Trump will only hurt the EU working class more, as the US has more levers to pull being a big consumer of EU exports.
Unfortunately due to decades of neglect, mismanagement and bad policies, EU has backed itself into a corner making itself an easy mark for both the US and China to take advantage of as they lack any leverage to dictate international policies on their terms so they have to fold in the end.
Also, many EU politicians have no idea how the internet works let alone what Claude is. So much talks coming from them out of the blue on this topic will be the mouthpieces of the lobbyists funding them in exchange for government money to build "EU sovereign products" which may or may not deliver which is irrelevant as the goal will be to laudner public money into private pockets for shipping a sovereignty sticker.
@snovv_crash
>You spend too much time online
How can you insult people like that?
I base my assessment on the visible decline me and everyone around me see with our own eyes over the past 10 or so years. I can see for myself how my purchasing power has dropped like rock, how brutal inflation is, how much more expensive housing is relative to wages, how much more difficult it is to get a state doctor and childcare, the waves of layoffs me and friend experienced, etc. the news didn't have to tell people that, people can see and experience that for themselves. All these are not caused by one single issue that you can easily revert, they're a cumulation of multiple issues that accumulated over decades and are impossible to reverse in the current situation the EU is in.
It's so insulting when people are trying to gaslight you that your lived expiries are just "being online". So disingenuous and bad faith.
>The EU isn't bogged down with issues
It definitely is. That's why it can't take decisive actions against foreign bullies. Lie the EU talks a lot about its freedom and humanitarian values and polices but sheepishly fails to impose them on its trading partners, because it would suffer retaliations it can not absorb. It's too dependent on energy and tech imports from the US and too dependent on manufacturing from China, so it can't piss either of them off and is forced to play ball to their tune regardless of diverging values, while also playing to the tune of Azerbaijani authoritarianism for their gas imports and to the whims of Indian nationalists for access to their market. EU is currently in no position to bargain so it folds to everyone's demands.
Does "Europe" need a leading-edge model? Yeah, most likely, but chasing the "SpaceX-buys-all-the-Nvida-chips-then-rents-them-out" model is pointless, and the "China distills it all" market seems to be rather saturated as well. So, another vote for "meh", I guess?
Yes, I know Mistral exists but they're into the b-2-b sovereign enterprise/government niche, not winning the consumer space. And if history taught us anything from the Blackberry vs iPhone wars is that products winning over the consumer preference end up dominating the market over those dominating enterprise. Simple as.
Not many consumers and small-medium businesses will prefer to buy an inferior but domestic products for the sake of sovereignty, if the foreign imports can deliver better faster/results for cheaper. Same how Chinese brands are now easting European ones on the European market.