I would never call a software project SPICE; I use a fucking search engine when naming things to avoid the cringe of ignorantly landing on a dupe. (And also use SPICE in the LTSpice incarnation; I should give ngspice a spin one of these days.)
Animats 15 hours ago [-]
Agreed. The SPICE electronics simulator is over fifty years old, and is still very important to people who have to design electronics. It's inside many other electronics design tools. It's standard enough that when a manufacturer comes out with a new analog IC, they often provide a SPICE model for it. Otherwise nobody wants to design it into their circuit. Reusing the name for another program is like calling something new FORTRAN.
(I had nothing to do with SPICE, other than as a user. It's by Laurence Nagel, and I'm John Nagle. Not related.)
rjsw 14 hours ago [-]
We could speedrun this and just call every product "the thing".
Ngspice is okay but it's a bit clumsy switching between it and xschem.
lloydatkinson 13 hours ago [-]
Talking of cringe, the author of the README spent more time including their barely disguised fetish pony than explaining what "SPICE" is.
tzs 13 hours ago [-]
Any you spent more time writing that comment than it would have taken to click the "SPICE" link next to that pony image logo, wait the ~1 second it takes to load, and read the first sentence which would have told you what it is.
Nefarius 10 hours ago [-]
Seeing a fetish in random cartoon characters ironically tells all of us way more about you than it says about me ;D
lloydatkinson 2 hours ago [-]
This is a poor retort considering how well known and infamous "MLP" and "bronies" are on the internet.
weinzierl 15 hours ago [-]
Once interviewed for an automotive embedded software position and they asked me if I was familiar with SPICE. Naturally assumed they meant the circuit simulator, answered yes and they did not dig deeper
Only later in the job I realized that they had meant Software Process Improvement and Capability Determination.
classified 14 hours ago [-]
dEtermination. Also quite confusing.
F3nd0 13 hours ago [-]
They’re only concerned with capability determination, not name determination. Some people just have no SPINE when it comes to naming things.
chrisandchris 16 hours ago [-]
People who work with virtualization on Linux will (hopefully) all know what SPICE is.
Edit: typo
IndrekR 16 hours ago [-]
> with visualization on Linux
You mean ‘virtualization’ here, I guess.
nocman 14 hours ago [-]
Nope. I work with virtualization on Linux every day, and have done so for many years (and many varieties of virtualization). I didn't recognize it by the name, and I don't remember hearing about it before.
Hizonner 14 hours ago [-]
People who know what both of them are (hello) still won't know which one the headline is talking about.
The circuit one is definitely older, probably has more users, and is just as relevant in this forum.
pjmlp 15 hours ago [-]
Indeed, it was what we used in digital circuits lab exercises back in the 90's.
RobRivera 14 hours ago [-]
I am happy I am not alone in this
c0l0 16 hours ago [-]
As an irregular user of spice (via Proxmox PVE), I wish the stars would align for QEMU to gain support for sunlight/moonlight streaming directly in the hypervisor. That'd be a killer app for VDI-style infrastructure, now that accelerated guest graphics via Venus, VirtIO GPU, and Intel's support for SR-IOV is finally coming together.
matja 16 hours ago [-]
> I wish the stars would align for QEMU to gain support for sunlight/moonlight streaming directly in the hypervisor.
I didn't know I wanted it until you said it.
I have a few QEMU VMs where I use PCI-passthrough of a whole GPU and a USB controller, and wire the display and USB outputs physically into a KVM switch - works great, but not having to fiddle with the KVM (and run out of physical ports) would be - indeed, killer app.
colechristensen 14 hours ago [-]
This is a great idea and perhaps not all that hard. I'm getting started on it.
colechristensen 11 hours ago [-]
It's possible and I have a very early E2E test. A modification of the sunshine backend itself to be able to connect to qemu. In the future it's definitely possible to have this directly in qemu but it would require reimplementing the whole sunshine protocol
This would be ideal. I've been reading about Moonlight a lot lately, and it's many children. I'm building a new home theater set up and will be trying it soon.
franga2000 16 hours ago [-]
I really don't get why redhat decided to kill SPICE. It was the only thing that got using a VM on open source virtualization (e.g. proxmox) close to the experience of using one on vmware.
VNC is truly the worst remote desktop protocol you can have. Bad latency, bad quality, bad integration.
rwmj 16 hours ago [-]
Not enough people want to pay for VDI basically, certainly compared to how much it costs to maintain it. SPICE at the time that we abandoned it "only" supported 2D and video compression, which is complicated enough, but everyone wanted 3D support which would have added another labyrinthine stack on top.
Also the code at the time was a massive security nightmare, written with no validation of fields in the network protocol. It was unmarshalling stuff off the network and sending it directly to X11 libs without even bounds checking. (I sincerely hope this has improved.)
With that said, I wish the project well. SPICE is a much better user experience than VNC, especially if you're looking for something that supports audio, video and USB passthru.
x3haloed 16 hours ago [-]
Now that NoMachine 10 has no free option, I’ve decided that I should try to burn some tokens on making a good, performant remote desktop system. I’m targeting moonlight-like performance with Windows RDP-like user experience. Cross-platform.
I don’t need my particular repo to be the one where this gets solved, but now that coding agents are really good, we shouldn’t have to put up with paying for shit software anymore, IMO.
CamperBob2 15 hours ago [-]
Did the same thing. Added the exact features I wanted/needed to the FreeRDP client and had Claude generate a lightweight server from scratch. Bye, bye, TeamViewer, Windows RDP, and RealVNC.
Magniquick 15 hours ago [-]
404 for me
indigodaddy 15 hours ago [-]
404
Tostino 16 hours ago [-]
I did all of my development for a couple years on my first startup in a VM on my proxmox server, connected through spice. Was extremely nice being able to just go from desktop to laptop to any other machine that I had available and have the same environment available everywhere.
It's been a few years and I haven't had a need for it recently, but it's sad to hear that they stopped supporting it.
g8oz 16 hours ago [-]
100% agree. VNC is well past its prime.
Daviey 15 hours ago [-]
and insecure by default
indigodaddy 15 hours ago [-]
I used to use x2goserver which was and still is awesome.
These days I prefer docker-based KASM Workspaces, or if you just want a nice GUI over your "bare-metal" VM or server then KasmVNC is great and easy to setup (not that KASM Workspaces is hard to setup)
I guess I hadn't been paying attention. Is this just the Windows SPICE client that Red Hat has abandoned, or are they moving toward dropping SPICE altogether? Does Red Hat no longer have a VDI product? (I'm sure they did at one point.)
Regardless, thanks for picking this up, OP.
rwmj 15 hours ago [-]
Yes, Red Hat dropped SPICE support quite some time ago. Apparently in RHEL 8.3: https://access.redhat.com/solutions/5414901 It's definitely not part of any current Red Hat product. See my other reply for why this is.
I don't think we have a VDI product as such, assuming you discount VNC which we do support but is hardly a full VDI solution.
danilocesar 15 hours ago [-]
The major challenge is not keep it building and compatible. The major challenge is to keep up with security issues.
I wish op all the best, it's a tough journey
gbraad 14 hours ago [-]
Why the pony with the hat if they do not sponsor it.
Nefarius 14 hours ago [-]
Because it's funny.
gbraad 7 hours ago [-]
I think it gives the wrong impression, as they actually abandoned it.
nannal 13 hours ago [-]
Humor does appear to be rather subjective in this case.
F3nd0 13 hours ago [-]
I think all humour is.
valdiorn 12 hours ago [-]
Who named this project? SPICE - the circuit emulator - is one of the oldest and most well known open source projects id all time.
cwillu 9 hours ago [-]
That ship sailed 20 years ago.
uecker 15 hours ago [-]
I wish somebody would build a C version of xpra which does only has the client side for latency hiding and manages the remote caching using X11 messages only.
seymon 15 hours ago [-]
Is there a good alternative to SPICE beside VNC?
woleium 16 hours ago [-]
The lack of a decent SPICE client for mac is disappointing, it’s one if my greatest proxmox frustrations
Edit: great work on this fork, by the way.
c-hendricks 15 hours ago [-]
There's one that at least works fairly well, but it's paid. aSPICE Pro.
arisudesu 14 hours ago [-]
I'd rather you refuse to let ViGEmBus die. :)
Nefarius 14 hours ago [-]
I said all there is to say about it a while ago :P
IshKebab 16 hours ago [-]
That is one creepy image.
KronisLV 15 hours ago [-]
Probably not everyone's thing, but nice layout and color choice! I like the way how it slightly overlaps the surrounding text, but doesn't make it unreadable.
hughes 16 hours ago [-]
Yeah - was the brony/furry mascot original to the service or added by OP?
DaSHacka 15 hours ago [-]
Its the OP's profile picture, edited with a Red Hat fedora.
hn92726819 15 hours ago [-]
Specifically, this looks like a drawing of the character Fluttershy. If it is an OC mascot, that would be weird because it looks just like her.
Nefarius 15 hours ago [-]
It is OC with an obvious, heavy influence.
F3nd0 13 hours ago [-]
Mad Hattershy.
Nefarius 15 hours ago [-]
SCNR :D
krautburglar 9 hours ago [-]
Deprecation of SPICE was news to me. Issue thread on the removal:
redhat spice driver was always touch and go — like every other linux well poisoning they do.
x11rdp has been good to me.
rwmj 15 hours ago [-]
You mean the closed source code that Red Hat acquired when we bought Qumranet for $100 million, then open sourced, maintained at a loss for many years, and is now (still) open source and available to everyone to use as they wish?
krautburglar 14 hours ago [-]
Whether RH paid $100M for this well poisoning, or however much more/less it pays its staff developers to do the same (i.e. wayland, systemd...), the effect is the same: more churn & instability in the Linux space.
15 hours ago [-]
fouc 14 hours ago [-]
[dead]
kragen 15 hours ago [-]
SPICE is not in any danger of dying; it's the thing every analog EE uses to simulate their circuits, and has been for 40 years. This remote desktop thing needs to change its name.
II2II 15 hours ago [-]
The page doesn't make what SPICE is for obvious, aside from linking to other pages, but they are not talking about the circuit simulation tool. (It appears to be some sort of tool for accessing desktops of virtual machines remotely.)
kragen 14 hours ago [-]
I have the impression that you could also use it for accessing desktops of real machines remotely, too, but that's only because I keep running into it when I'm looking for information about the real SPICE, a 50-year-old open-source program used to design every computer you've ever used and for which the IEEE awarded Donald Pedersen the Medal of Honor.
Using it often. Mostly via ngspice nowadays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngspice
(I had nothing to do with SPICE, other than as a user. It's by Laurence Nagel, and I'm John Nagle. Not related.)
Ngspice is okay but it's a bit clumsy switching between it and xschem.
Only later in the job I realized that they had meant Software Process Improvement and Capability Determination.
Edit: typo
You mean ‘virtualization’ here, I guess.
The circuit one is definitely older, probably has more users, and is just as relevant in this forum.
I didn't know I wanted it until you said it.
I have a few QEMU VMs where I use PCI-passthrough of a whole GPU and a USB controller, and wire the display and USB outputs physically into a KVM switch - works great, but not having to fiddle with the KVM (and run out of physical ports) would be - indeed, killer app.
Follow along https://anvil.fangorn.io/fangorn/sunshine-qemu and https://blog.fangorn.io (there isn't anything here yet)
VNC is truly the worst remote desktop protocol you can have. Bad latency, bad quality, bad integration.
Also the code at the time was a massive security nightmare, written with no validation of fields in the network protocol. It was unmarshalling stuff off the network and sending it directly to X11 libs without even bounds checking. (I sincerely hope this has improved.)
With that said, I wish the project well. SPICE is a much better user experience than VNC, especially if you're looking for something that supports audio, video and USB passthru.
https://github.com/x3haloed/ascry
I don’t need my particular repo to be the one where this gets solved, but now that coding agents are really good, we shouldn’t have to put up with paying for shit software anymore, IMO.
It's been a few years and I haven't had a need for it recently, but it's sad to hear that they stopped supporting it.
These days I prefer docker-based KASM Workspaces, or if you just want a nice GUI over your "bare-metal" VM or server then KasmVNC is great and easy to setup (not that KASM Workspaces is hard to setup)
https://hub.docker.com/r/linuxserver/kasm https://github.com/kasmtech/KasmVNC
Regardless, thanks for picking this up, OP.
I don't think we have a VDI product as such, assuming you discount VNC which we do support but is hardly a full VDI solution.
I wish op all the best, it's a tough journey
Edit: great work on this fork, by the way.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2030592
x11rdp has been good to me.